tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post2314784431298544410..comments2023-09-29T06:09:21.089-04:00Comments on Ask a Manager: don't mention your MENSA membershipAsk a Managerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-16358300660280432322010-11-11T23:20:09.322-05:002010-11-11T23:20:09.322-05:00It's all a matter of compatibility--HR recruit...It's all a matter of compatibility--HR recruiters are concerned that your being in the top 2% will create incompatibility in the office...since 98% of their companies' workforces will be underachievers, including the middle and executive management. <br /><br />If the job is elitist enough to inherently require a high IQ, then membership listing is unnecessary. If it's an average job with average joes, even those that require advanced degrees, then membership listing is superfluous and arrogant, if for no other reason than you won't be using those abilities; almost as if you listed proficiency in some obscure, dead language.<br /><br />I've read, not that it's accurate, that the average IQ of a recent college graduate is 115, which is average (100) with a precision of +/- 15 points. I consider "average" to be Homer Simpson-esque--that's what's coming out of college these days, who you'll be interviewing with (hopefully), and who you'll be working with and under, so your best shot at a job is to appear as homogenous as the collective, yet distinguished through practical application.<br /><br />If you're wanting to make the membership useful then network a job within the club.Savvy Bulgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-35930150090946300882010-10-13T08:52:42.016-04:002010-10-13T08:52:42.016-04:00“Some men come by the name of genius in the same w...“Some men come by the name of genius in the same way as an insect comes by the name of centipede - not because it has a hundred feet, but because most people can't count above fourteen”<br /><br />Georg Christoph LichtenbergAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-7178777423921512062010-10-08T12:10:52.244-04:002010-10-08T12:10:52.244-04:00Sure enough, during the interview he asked me my L...Sure enough, during the interview he asked me my LSAT score and percentile. When I told him, he looked very pleased and very impressed. Of course, this was a guy with more letters after his name than were in his name, so it could be a special case. Given how elitist high-powered professionals with top credentials tend to be, I doubt it's atypical.<br /><br />As for the relevance of putting Mensa on my application, the contra- group here would probably say, "See? It would have been irrelevant because your intelligence came through without you having to be an asshat and putting Mensa on your resume." Well, the way it turned out, that's true. But when the recruiter called me for the first time, one of the first things she said to me was that she had been close to skipping me even for an initial interview because I didn't have enough tax/accounting background. Because I strongly emphasized the little I did have, she gave me a shot, but it was close. She could just as easily have passed over me. <br /><br />As it turns out, the employer is now talking about hiring me and paying for me to get an MBA so I'll have the necessary education to do the job well. I can't help but think my high Wonderlic and LSAT scores helped me get that far with him just as much as the name of my undergrad school, the name of my law school, my gpa, and my law review editor position. Probably more, given the fact that my training wasn't really what he was looking for--he was looking at my potential more than my accrued experience or current skill set.<br /><br />A Mensa membership on the resume might have caught enough attention on the initial pass through the resumes that I wouldn't have nearly been thrown in the "no" pile.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-7121453447427029182010-10-08T12:10:18.739-04:002010-10-08T12:10:18.739-04:00Similarly, there are jobs that can't be done, ...Similarly, there are jobs that can't be done, or at least can't be done well, without a high IQ. The jaded hr rep made an early comment that said, "I always make a mental note of these candidates in case we ever develop a new position that requires intense, high-level, creative riddle or brain-teaser solving." He/she was being sarcastic and probably trying to be funny (I laughed a bit myself), but the fact is that there are jobs out there that equate to intense, high-level, creative riddle or brain-teaser solving. <br /><br />That's the exact reason why a test that is 75% logic problems and 25% reading comprehension is required for admission to every law school in the USA. A high score doesn't mean you will be a good lawyer, but without a high score, you're fighting an uphill battle to say the least. There is a high correlation between the tasks involved in the profession and the aptitudes tested. Apparently there is a high correlation between LSAT scores and IQ as well, which makes sense because the LSAT is a true aptitude test, unlike the SAT, which is an achievement test.<br /><br />I guess you could say "aptitude" is the key word when talking about the relevance of IQ. You could also call it potential. It's necessary but far from sufficient for some high level jobs. And unless you capitalize on it through education and experience, its relevance is minimal.<br /><br />On the other hand, between two people with the same degrees from the same schools and substantially similar personalities, a certified high IQ (or Mensa membership, or high LSAT score, etc.) at least tells you that one of the candidates has a very high aptitude or potential. I know if I was choosing between two otherwise identical candidates, I'd prefer a 178 LSAT to a 168 (both of which would qualify for Mensa), because I would expect the 178 to be able to catch things that a 168 would miss, or think of creative solutions to a legal problem that the 168 wouldn't think of. Why? Because he proved he is better at using his brain to solve complex logic problems.<br /><br /><br />On a side note, I wonder what AAM's opinion is of recruiters and hiring managers that use the Wonderlic test as a hiring criterion or even as a cutoff. I've heard my father-in-law talk about the test several times because his company uses it to evaluate candidates to their management training program, and my brother-in-law had to take it as part of the application process to a different company's management training program.<br /><br />I recently applied and then interviewed for a combination attorney/business analyst/tax planner position. When I got to the initial interview with the recruiter, she told me the employer was only interested in applicants who score at least a 30 on the Wonderlic test (which is essentially a short-form IQ test.) At the second interview, before I met the employer, the recruiter told me that the employer thought the test score was very important. <br /><br />--->Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-2073449522937768542010-10-08T04:39:53.885-04:002010-10-08T04:39:53.885-04:00I'm not a member of Mensa, but I have wondered...I'm not a member of Mensa, but I have wondered on-and-off for years whether I should join and, if so, whether I should put it on my resume.<br /><br />I'm an attorney, graduated with honors from a top law school, and was an editor on the law review. It's very difficult to get into the law school I went to without an LSAT score that qualfies for Mensa. However, I didn't know that LSAT could even be used for Mensa until a few days ago, and I assume most attorneys don't know either. Most of them have heard of Mensa.<br /><br />The degree to which IQ generally or Mensa membership more specifically is relevant to a job certainly varies based on the tasks involved. There are jobs where a person with a 100 IQ and a great personality will easily out-perform one with a 145 IQ and a strongly introverted personality. <br /><br />Some of the comments above mentioned the possibility that the discomfort about mentioning and IQ or Mensa membership comes from the fact that it’s a natural characteristic rather than an achievement or earned credential. I think that’s probably a big part of it. I also think that’s a ridiculous reason to disfavor an applicant because they mention Mensa, at least if the job tasks are related to intelligence. Some people above were trying to draw the connection to other physical characteristics but didn’t quite draw it in. The best analogy I can think of is this: you’re in charge of hiring a back-up center for the local NBA team. You’re interested in a lot of things about each prospect: mental acuity, training, performance history, age, athleticism, etc. <br /><br />At this point in the game, let’s say (however unrealistically) that you have to base your decisions about which candidates to meet in person on their resume alone. Let’s also say that there is a well-known organization, the Thin Air Club, that only admits members if they are taller than 98% of the population, but only about 50,000 of the eligible 6 million people in the USA are members. As everyone knows, there is one criterion for the position of NBA center that is non-negotiable—height. You have to be very tall. <br /><br />There’s nothing you can do to make yourself taller, and there’s nothing you did right in your lifetime that made you tall, nothing you did wrong to make yourself less-than-tall. You just are the height you are. Membership in the Thin Air Club might be mostly irrelevant to the vast majority of jobs out there, but it’s very relevant to this one. No, it doesn’t tell you anything more than that the applicant is certain to be very tall—but that fact alone is necessary for this position. But seeing it on the resume would at least tell you that that one very important criterion is met with this candidate. You can assume that other candidates are tall based on other facts, such as that they played center at this or that college, but college centers don’t have to be as tall as NBA centers. <br /><br /> If this analogy has any shortcoming, it lies in the fact that you can’t mask a lack of appropriate height with preparation or a disarming personality. It’s not that hard to seem smarter than you are, especially for a short duration. And with respect to the other jobs for which membership in the Thin Air Club is irrelevant, it would still be an interesting thing to see on a resume along with other low-relevance items like the applicant’s “interests.”<br /><br />--->Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-22254095308985614872010-07-20T02:49:26.294-04:002010-07-20T02:49:26.294-04:00Short of having psychic abilities to determine how...Short of having psychic abilities to determine how a particular recruiter feels about Mensa, I still have no idea whether it is a good idea to post it on a resume. I am, however, glad that the organization exists as just one more social opportunity that clearly has and will predictably continue to be beneficial to many human beings. This subject and many related subjects are clearly emotionally-charged, but I think we all have the same needs: We all want to succeed, we all want to make good decisions, we all want to be fairly evaluated, we all want to respected for everything including our intelligence, and, yes, we are ALL insecure and brag a little. Maybe the following will help us to laugh about the misconceptions about IQ together. In kindergarten, due to being tested as having a pretty high IQ (150), I was labeled as "gifted" and often pulled out of class and asked to play with objects and such. At age 4 I had no model for what this meant, but I had a pretty good model for what "special" meant in 1970's 'eduspeak'. I did not want to make my parents feel sad that I had figured out that I had a severe 'learning disability', so I decided not to tell them for a few months that I had 'figured it out'. Genius, huh? 'Now for something a little darker, ... if you want a better predictor of someone's future professional success, many researchers will suggest you examine the families' socioeconomic background. Maybe we should put that on a resume if it bodes well for us!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-78022990374640594102010-05-18T17:46:12.947-04:002010-05-18T17:46:12.947-04:00I am a member of Mensa and I put it on my CV. A lo...I am a member of Mensa and I put it on my CV. A lot of people here seem to be forgetting the important step of getting to the interview itself which relies on your CV. The way in which I chose to disclose my membership was at the end of a sentence saying that I am a good problem solver and capable of thinking quickly and clearly in tough situations. I could have just put the sentence itself but I think that is the same as everyone else does with anything in their CV. I have seen many people CV's where they state many things without qualification such as being well organised etc. It's all well and good to just state something but when you have something to back it up why not put it in?<br />In response to the poster who said it is obnoxious to join Mensa I would just like to reply that I joined as a test to myself to see if I could do it. If it is obnoxious to test your capabilities then I must confess to being guilty as charged along with every other member of the human race with any ambition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-59608111050690371762010-03-31T01:44:31.202-04:002010-03-31T01:44:31.202-04:00I just found I out I qualify for Mensa membership ...I just found I out I qualify for Mensa membership based on my GMAT score (the one I took 9 years ago :)). I know I am smart, but never thought I'd qualify for Mensa.<br />As far as my experience with hiring managers goes: I went to two job interviews in the past two months and the feedback from both was 'she is very very smart'. <br />I didn't need a Mensa stamp on my resume to show that, but if I have it, I wouldn't hesitate to disclose it. Those who would judge me against it, are absolutely not the ones I want to work with.<br />I have worked with bosses of average intelligence but 'know it all attitude' like the OP and it is an experience I'd like to avoid at all costs.<br />PS I turned down both offers.<br /><br />PPS If I were a hiring manager, the first thing I'd look for is high IQ, the second - high GPA. The one shows intelligence, the other shows diligence and the ability to work consistenly well over long periods of time.<br /><br />PPPS You can tell Mensa vs non-Mensa posters just by seeing the way the express them self - fluent, beautiful logic...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-59298758631872562662010-02-09T13:10:45.354-05:002010-02-09T13:10:45.354-05:00I agree with the 10/13 anonymous; some of the more...I agree with the 10/13 anonymous; some of the more recent posts are fairly hostile and uninformed. :)<br /><br />After reading all the comments thus far my opinion is basically unchanged. I do not think I would put Mensa membership on a resume unless I held office or was actively involved in some other way. I would hope that my other achievements and qualifications would be enough to warrant an interview. I would mention it in the interview if activities outside of work were mentioned, but I wouldn't wear it as a badge. <br /><br />In an ideal world it would be there, but it is my view that the benefits don't outweigh the risks. I could be mistaken, but I believe the chances of the interviewer having a negative view of such organizations (subconscious or not) is higher than him/her having a positive view. It is about putting yourself forward in the best possible light; something with this much controversy should probably be avoided--at least on first contact.<br /><br />This is of course referring to resumes designed to get a job outside of the academic world. I am interested to know what some peoples' views are on putting in on a c.v. <br /><br />I am not a member, but I am considering taking the test before I apply for graduate school. I think I would put it a grad school app.<br /><br />--AndrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-7958724647627228642010-01-02T12:33:06.801-05:002010-01-02T12:33:06.801-05:00"It looks like Mensa is for people who score ..."It looks like Mensa is for people who score 96 or higher. 90- 109 means really is that the person is NORMAL not a Retard. That is all."<br /><br />96th percentile. Not a score of 96. My guess is that the score would need to be around 150. I doubt you be able to get in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-52716062597483041552009-11-15T21:22:03.876-05:002009-11-15T21:22:03.876-05:00A resume is intended to gauge your potential for s...A resume is intended to gauge your potential for successfully preforming a said job. If being a member of a club that authoritatively decides that you are among the top 2.2% of the most cognitively adaptive humans on earth doesn't qualify you for that job, then nothing will. In a essence, if you are a member of MENSA then that should be the only thing on your resume. But don't take my advice...I never go to the meetings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-6376927403136678852009-11-02T19:41:30.110-05:002009-11-02T19:41:30.110-05:00It seems clear that there are plenty of smart comp...It seems clear that there are plenty of smart competent hiring authorities who still think that listing Mensa is a questionable thing to do, and plenty who don't. Attacking either side for being pompous or threatened is silly. People can disagree on this issue without having to be labeled negatively.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-1720657599392543772009-10-16T18:14:09.889-04:002009-10-16T18:14:09.889-04:00I recently joined Mensa and I've been wrestlin...I recently joined Mensa and I've been wrestling with whether to update the resume my boss keeps on file to include my membership. I worry, as many have suggested, that it may come across as arrogance. My other concern is that it may flag me as a dramatic underachiever. If I'm so darn smart, why am I working in a mid-level position at someone else's company? On the other hand, I've considered that a mention of my Mensa membership might add to my credibility as a person whose thoughts are worth very serious consideration. Reading through this whole string has done nothing to make my decision any clearer. I think the ultimate answer, as with so many questions, is that it all depends on the specific situation and the intended outcome.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-68374420273645725372009-10-13T06:03:50.253-04:002009-10-13T06:03:50.253-04:00I guess it must be really frustrating to be fired ...I guess it must be really frustrating to be fired at the IQ test to join Mensa. That's the only possible explanation for some of the most recent posts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-6584419424012209242009-10-04T14:44:53.904-04:002009-10-04T14:44:53.904-04:00It's not a scam, a scam is making a windfall b...It's not a scam, a scam is making a windfall by deception. There is not the number of members, or profit per member for a scam. The new member package did have a credit card offer among several other things. Many organizations including football teams have made license deals to have their logo on credit cards. So a credit card offering isn't a red letter. And the person most impressed was my grandson in college.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-62796615695103898452009-10-03T19:23:55.450-04:002009-10-03T19:23:55.450-04:00A member of Mensa wrote: "It's a social/ ...A member of Mensa wrote: "It's a social/ networking organization ... two large parties per month ... speakers presenting on a diverse range of topics, not to mention free food and beer.<br /><br />Yea! Free food and beer? That should attract SO many intellectuals!<br /><br />It looks like Mensa is for people who score 96 or higher. 90- 109 means really is that the person is NORMAL not a Retard. That is all. <br /><br />El IlustradoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-1140727201998706152009-10-01T18:53:49.557-04:002009-10-01T18:53:49.557-04:00Mensa is a scam, after a few months they sent me a...Mensa is a scam, after a few months they sent me a credit card application. If your IQ is over 13? why would you be interested in a credit card. <br /><br />Needless to say I have never mentioned my mensa membership to anyone I was trying to impress. I did tell my mommy, she was proud of me!Searchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06851086693609120945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-51952034460364045152009-09-26T17:15:34.871-04:002009-09-26T17:15:34.871-04:00I took the Mensa test, qualified and joined. Part ...I took the Mensa test, qualified and joined. Part of the reason for doing this was to put that fact on any future resume. If a manager finds it a negative, it's good to get that out of the way in the first place. Some managers like creative problem solvers in their organization, some can't trust others and must direct all actions below them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-61790732473804919532009-09-24T23:52:48.681-04:002009-09-24T23:52:48.681-04:00Just to weigh in as a Mensan and a hiring manager,...Just to weigh in as a Mensan and a hiring manager, I have my membership listed on my resume under community and professional affiliations (in the context that I serve on the executive committee for my local chapter) It doesn't mean I am more qualified than anyone else, or better than anyone, it's just a data point. When I see it on resumes, it's almost always in reference to leadership roles held or service projects, and nearly always has a positive connotation. I would advise Mensans to list their membership on the resume, certainly ahead of listing interests and hobbies.phoodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02578847050814310687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-9931452886824376742009-09-12T11:34:13.574-04:002009-09-12T11:34:13.574-04:00The crude truth is that IQ tests scare people, bec...The crude truth is that IQ tests scare people, because they are different from other tests. For example, you can get a good score on SAT test if you prepare for it, and this is the reason why it is NOT valid to join Mensa. But IQ test is different, the IQ score gives you a lifelong mark, it tells you if you are BORN intelligent or not, it's something related to your DNA, not to your will or motivation.<br /><br />Everybody is afraid to take the IQ test and get a bad score, it's like being considered ugly by women, it makes people frustrated.<br /><br />So maybe, to be fair, AAM is not completely wrong: having a high IQ means being much smarter than those HR managers who will see your cv (intelligent people don't pursue a career in HR...), it makes them envious and frustrated. So maybe they won't choose you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-41544364387522614552009-09-04T06:39:42.423-04:002009-09-04T06:39:42.423-04:00I’ve just come across this post and….
"Ask a...I’ve just come across this post and….<br /><br />"Ask a Manager said...<br />Many smart people who would qualify for Mensa choose not to join; I'm sure I'm far from the only one."<br /><br />Wow. And what's written above isn't obnoxious in any way?<br /><br />“Ask a Manager said...<br />The qualifications for Mensa aren't even that high –“<br /><br />No one’s saying that Mensans are geniuses. But they sure aren’t all that daft either. And I don’t know about you, but I would like to work with people who actually know what they’re doing.<br /><br />I think J Parsons in particular sounds some reason on the topic. A resume is supposed to set you apart from the crowd and show your positive qualities. Stating a Mensan membership doesn’t make one obnoxious. Why write about any successes at all in your resume then?<br /><br />For those who state that job interviews are NOT to choose the smart from the not, but to find a job match, why would a mention of respectable IQ not be of interest?<br /><br />Many different people join Mensa for different reasons. I think the point is not to flash your Mensa membership to the public and expect respect. Putting it down in your resume in confidence, with the hope of being noticed is different.<br /><br />Bottom line is, include this info if you’re comfortable with the expectations that come with it. You yourself know whether you are obnoxious or not. If they don’t like it, it’s their loss.Miss Understoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04022817180609607482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-91916365403315903622009-08-19T12:28:14.967-04:002009-08-19T12:28:14.967-04:00Wow, reading all these comments totally inspired m...Wow, reading all these comments totally inspired me to finally take the plunge and join Mensa.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14859665230056981395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-73810948840296008952009-07-28T23:28:31.042-04:002009-07-28T23:28:31.042-04:00There are 2 commonalities among those who refuse t...There are 2 commonalities among those who refuse to acknowledge that a high IQ is highly relevant to EVERY position, including hamburger flipper at a fast food joint: (1) Low IQ 2) Low self esteem.<br /><br />In every company at which I have worked, the most intelligent people were almost without exception the most valuable contributors. They innovate and they problem solve better than their peers.<br /><br />And yes, they will learn the job and become better at it than their slightly more experienced peers, who offer only mediocre intelligence.Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-56098770766235747972009-07-27T22:13:11.353-04:002009-07-27T22:13:11.353-04:00Mentioning my Mensa membership on my resume helped...Mentioning my Mensa membership on my resume helped me get the job I've held for the last couple years. I interviewed but was on another freelance project for a few months. When that gig ended, I contacted the company and my future boss specifically brought it up; "oh, you were the guy in Mensa, right?"<br /><br />I think it helped me because my current field, web development, is one where education is largely irrelevant. It's more important to be able to pick up a new programming language quickly than to have N years of training. Many people I work with have degrees in fields unrelated to web dev (I wasted my college years studying marketing) and a few (like my boss) quit school altogether and now run 20 person teams in a larger organization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-22319446118821077092009-07-24T00:15:38.568-04:002009-07-24T00:15:38.568-04:00sourgraping.... do not post your mensa membership ...sourgraping.... do not post your mensa membership if your applying for a regular job. mensa membership boosts your credentials but it is not EVERYTHING. those who say that being a member of mensa is not a big deal... well.... SOURGRAPING! heheh<br /><br />it is a boost, but its not everything. <br /><br />once agian, IQ is the analyzation skills of a person and not knowledge. in our everyday lives, that is very very important. so if you have a sharper mind, you have the edge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com