tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post6859545653896257087..comments2023-09-29T06:09:21.089-04:00Comments on Ask a Manager: should I warn my friend he's about to be laid off?Ask a Managerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-62790720146320564042009-07-13T10:03:43.775-04:002009-07-13T10:03:43.775-04:00Jamieson, I figured the friend was asking, since t...Jamieson, I figured the friend was asking, since the letter writer said he was saying things like, "the sooner I know, the better." But if the person wasn't asking and the question is whether or not to take the initiative to warn someone, I think there's less of a moral imperative, since you're not ignoring someone's direct pleas. On the other hand, if someone were making lots of big financial commitments, I'd be inclined to give them some neutral advice to wait out the company's financial situation, solicited or not.Ask a Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-9764345806269993322009-07-11T16:13:43.893-04:002009-07-11T16:13:43.893-04:00I agree fully with AAM's advice. I would do th...I agree fully with AAM's advice. I would do the same thing that position even though I'm in HR. <br /><br />The most you can/should do is suggest that your friend behave in an intelligent manner knowing that layoffs are coming. It's not your responsibility to make sure your friend is fiscally prepared for a layoff. It sucks but that's life.Rachel - former HR bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13504902980684871964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-47126358819990236452009-07-10T17:11:29.329-04:002009-07-10T17:11:29.329-04:00I don't mean to resurrect the horse, but I can...I don't mean to resurrect the horse, but I can see Charles' point and am also curious. The way the reader posed the question does seem to align with the logic behind AAM's answer. AAM gave an answer related to how to handle a direct solicitation from a friend (and, according to AAM, from ANYONE, keeping it fair). However, my perspective of the reader's question is very different.... she wasn't necessarily asking how to respond to a direct solicitation from a friend, but rather, should she take the initiative to warn a friend that he is about to be laid off. I would like to know the answer to that question, and not to put words in his mouth, but it seems that is, too, the question Charles was posing or the point he was acknowledging.Jamiesonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-55164007229228696022009-07-10T13:30:34.706-04:002009-07-10T13:30:34.706-04:00Charles, I think that's a totally reasonable w...Charles, I think that's a totally reasonable way to look at it.Ask a Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-45575888808174109772009-07-10T12:48:27.613-04:002009-07-10T12:48:27.613-04:00AAM - sorry to be beating a dead horse here. But ...AAM - sorry to be beating a dead horse here. But why should only those who <b>ask</b> be given this information?<br /><br />I, for one, would never approach a friend in this postion as I would not want to put him/her in an ethical dilemma. If I did it would be with a preface of "you can't tell me anything, right?" This preface would give them an easy "out." Does that mean I should be left out of the loop?<br /><br />I still think the best approach for this situation is to let the friend (I think we all agree that this friend does seem clueless at this point and that might be part of the reason why he is being let go) know that there are rumors and that the supervisor cannot disclose any information. End of discussion. <br /><br />Then the supervisor should approach <i>his</i> manager to let him know that rumors are affecting morale. Asking "Isn't there something, <i>anything</i>, we can tell people?" <br /><br />If the answer is no; then the supervisor has a decision to make. Does his loyalty belong to the company or does it belong to the people who have worked for him, and possibly made his job easier. I would tend to be loyal to my subordinates (perhaps that's one reason I am no longer a supervisor)<br /><br />Again, that to me is what a professional, responsible manager would do. To tell some people, in coded language or not, and not tell others is just wrong to me. I don't care what the rational (well, they didn't ask) for this "selective" disclosure is, it is still favoritism.<br /><br />It also seems to me as if the original letter writer was asking for persmission to breach his company's trust in him for just this one person. And hoping in the process that he doesn't get caught. That too makes me question his managment skills.<br /><br />Friendships do come first for me. But this manager, no, make that ALL managers, owe equal treatment to all their subordinates.<br /><br />I think that your blog is a great service to many out there, like myself, who are tying to gain an insight into how managers and others in such positions think. Thank you. <br /><br />I mean no disrespect; But I have been on the short end of the stick in this type of situation. That's what has me so riled up about this.<br /><br />So my apologies if I come across as harsh or argumentative. I certainly don't mean to.<br /><br />Okay, I'll shut up now ;)Charleshttp://home.earthlink.net/~nooriginalthought/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-69441020341862641192009-07-10T11:33:17.648-04:002009-07-10T11:33:17.648-04:00Charles, I'd suggest he give the same advice t...Charles, I'd suggest he give the same advice to anyone asking for his opinion about making major financial commitments, personal friend or not. (Frankly, I don't understand what his friend is thinking, since there are rumors of layoffs going around.)Ask a Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-9378539436896463682009-07-10T11:31:54.442-04:002009-07-10T11:31:54.442-04:00The reason I consider this supervisor letting his ...The reason I consider this supervisor letting his friend know is unethical is because <b>he is not letting others know.</b><br /><br />How about his unethical/unprofessional behaviour to others who report to him? Does he not owe them something? Or is it only those who "brown-nose" the boss are entitled to insider information? The rest of us be damned!<br /><br /><b>If this supervisor is really concerned about the company keeping things "secret" then perhaps he should take a pro-active approach and tell <i>his</i> superiors that rumors and the company's secretiveness are killing morale? That's what a professional manager would do!</b><br /><br />I am worked up about this because I was once on the end of being laid off; afterwards I found out that the Department Manager had told a few of his friends and not some of us others? Why was I not entitled to the same information?<br /><br />Before the layoffs were announced, one of his friends even handed in his resignation only to be told to hold off for awhile. This was so that his friend, who was planing on leaving anyway could instead get the severance package. I suppose many of you think this was okay? Friends come before "the man." <br /><br /><b>That's what so unethical about he suggestion that AAM proposed.</b>Charleshttp://home.earthlink.net/~nooriginalthought/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-14721386893323960822009-07-10T10:03:13.755-04:002009-07-10T10:03:13.755-04:00Before you do anything, you must accept the strong...Before you do anything, you must accept the strong possibility that you are going to lose this friendship no matter what you do. If you tell him, he might shoot the messenger. If you don't tell him, he might be mad at you for not saying anything when you knew. Either way, he might be resentful that you still have a job and he doesn't. So if you assume you're going to lose him as a friend regardless, would you rather do right by your friend anyway, or CYA at work? Only you know the right answer to that one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-33806082625358193522009-07-10T09:32:20.839-04:002009-07-10T09:32:20.839-04:00I'm surprised how much controversy there is on...I'm surprised how much controversy there is on this topic. When I was reading my AAMs post, her advice was my gut reaction as the best way to go. <br /><br />In the end, there isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer. It's a question of which obligations are more important to you, those to your company or those to your close friend. And that's a decision that only an individual can make for themselves.BossLadynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-14923876963625523382009-07-10T09:09:08.100-04:002009-07-10T09:09:08.100-04:00Food for thought - many of the inane (and insane) ...Food for thought - many of the inane (and insane) policies/practices about layoffs are a direct result of having such an overly litigious society. <br /><br />The confidentiality issues, the last-minute notifications, the escorting from the building immediately in some cases, etc. are not in place because of all the mature, rational people in the workplace – they’re in place because of all the immature, irrational, and especially CRAZY people in the workplace.<br /><br />Classic example of a few bad apples ruining it for everyone else.<br /><br />Also – I vote for Rachel…!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-3399754099535640722009-07-10T02:06:19.466-04:002009-07-10T02:06:19.466-04:00I was recently on the receiving end of a layoff no...I was recently on the receiving end of a layoff notice. In my case, I found out from others who were told (they weren't supposed to know about it either). I was crushed that my manager had sat on this for months without even mentioning a word. <br /><br />At first, I was embarrassed that I didn't know about it when others had found out. After having some time to think, I was glad that I found out through the grapevine because it at least bought me some time in the job search world. <br /><br />My first question to my manager was exactly when did he plan to tell me? The last day of my contract? It takes a long time to find a job these days. In my area, HR people I know claim to have 1000 or more people applying for every job. It doesn't even matter what the job is about. There are still 1000+ people applying.<br /><br />I think my message is directed more toward the employer about this whole sitting on it and waiting bit. I didn't turn into a dirt bag and stop performing my job to the best of my abilities when I discovered that I was going to be laid off. In fact, I completely understood that I was being laid off because of my employer's money issues. <br /><br />I did need the extra time to start marketing myself for another job. At least have that much respect for your employees. Not all of us are going to turn into dirt bags and do nothing for the remainder of our days or have serious behavior or legal issues in the workplace. It seems that employers wait so long on telling the employee that we're already out of work before we can begin searching for another job. We're supposed to by so very loyal to a company that tells us that we'll be discharged at the last minute? So much for loyalty.<br /><br />I didn't get the feeling that my employer respected me as a professional by waiting as long as possible to say something. I also feel like a fool for thinking that I could trust any manager to deal with employees as rational, professional adults.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-1098109960495925002009-07-10T01:02:36.913-04:002009-07-10T01:02:36.913-04:00This is in reference to Charles who responded to A...This is in reference to Charles who responded to AAM.<br /><br />This is my question to Charles: You say that AAM is advocating unethical behavior. Well, she never advised the concerned person to explicitly mention to his/her friend about the layoff. So, there is no question of ethical lapses here.<br />2) Laying off a person without any prior notice is in itself an UNETHICAL thing. It's strange that managers never understand this. If I became a manager and am given the responsibility to downsize people, I would first call in my team, break the news to them slowly, and ask them to prepare for it. Maybe, I may even try to find jobs for a few of the prospective members who may be laid off.<br /><br />Why do the management question only the ethics of the employees while they themselves act unethically???<br />Fittest of the survival I suppose???Aswin Kinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16741134467278912014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-79428368574112927322009-07-09T19:23:24.667-04:002009-07-09T19:23:24.667-04:00A different take: With rumors of cutbacks in the a...A different take: With rumors of cutbacks in the air your friend is still going forward with plans to increase their debt? And asking for as much notice about the cutbacks as possible? <br /><br />Good grief! Give them the link to the home page of this site. Tout the site as the motherload of all supervisor/manager advice sites. If that doesn't give them a reality check I'm not sure what else to tell you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-1765903329672983262009-07-09T18:32:12.053-04:002009-07-09T18:32:12.053-04:00My loyalty is to the roof over my head and food on...My loyalty is to the roof over my head and food on my table. If sticking up for a friend interferes with that, well... at least I'm honest with myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-88947029368592620242009-07-09T17:42:44.559-04:002009-07-09T17:42:44.559-04:00I do not get all these people who seem to think lo...I do not get all these people who seem to think loyalty to The Man is more important than loyalty to a friend. Have people totally lost their souls out there? I would TOTALLY tell my friend - he/she will most likely be so appreciative they will keep the secret. And thank God I am not friends with some of you out there who would watch a good friend crash and burn in order to protect an organization that could lay you off tomorrow as well!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-52596188545930218462009-07-09T17:39:07.706-04:002009-07-09T17:39:07.706-04:00I don't happen to believe that one's emplo...I don't happen to believe that one's employer is the final word on right and wrong.Ask a Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-8445472146253440482009-07-09T17:35:24.589-04:002009-07-09T17:35:24.589-04:00Ms. Manager Lady, you really do know how to work t...Ms. Manager Lady, you really do know how to work those nuances, don't you? Makes me wonder what kind of company you manage.Persis Khambatta (not really)http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Persis_Khambattanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-510007903580604372009-07-09T17:07:21.582-04:002009-07-09T17:07:21.582-04:00Sorry if this comes across as harsh; but I strongl...Sorry if this comes across as harsh; but I strongly disagree with this advice. AAM, while you claim that it is not a HUGE violation, it is violation none the less.<br /><br />It is unethical behaviour that you are advocating.<br /><br />What if his friend is one race and someone whom he doesn't tell is another race? Is this okay? Is it okay for only those who "eat lunch with the boss" to be given this kind of advice?<br /><br />Part of being a manager is being responsible and that includes not sharing confidential information.<br /><br />If this manager cannot understand that then he is not management material.<br /><br />Sorry, But I could rant about this all day (as I have on my site) since I have seen this type of favoritism in action too many times to know that nothing good can come of it.Charleshttp://home.earthlink.net/~nooriginalthought/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-7005165556998396542009-07-09T16:50:11.582-04:002009-07-09T16:50:11.582-04:00I was in this exact position during the last reces...I was in this exact position during the last recession only I was the person losing my job and there weren't any rumors of impending layoffs. I definitely wish my boss would have warned me. I closed on a new house 3 weeks before I found out I was being laid off. He knew about my impending job loss the entire time I was house hunting. He was let go too but at least he had some warning because he knew he had to let his entire staff go.Suenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-64589693924344627252009-07-09T16:16:15.866-04:002009-07-09T16:16:15.866-04:00If my boss hinted to me that I shouldn't spend...If my boss hinted to me that I shouldn't spend a lot of money right now, I'd pay attention. Seriously. Your friend will not miss the hint. If anything, it may freak him out.<br /><br />You need to be prepared for the possibility that this friendship may not survive the layoff. It may not be your fault that his name is on the list, and obviously this news puts you in a difficult spot with your friend, but once it's over, he may not be able to face you from the unemployed side of the fence. Pride, resentment, anger, etc. can all get in the way. <br /><br />I'm so sorry you have to go through this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-39663415609934264732009-07-09T15:26:10.486-04:002009-07-09T15:26:10.486-04:00I don't think I could look a friend in the eye...I don't think I could look a friend in the eye after being laid off and say, "Becuase it wouldn't be fair to everyone else was was being laid off and didn't know up front, I didn't tell you." It's a valid point, and it may not be fair to the rest of the firm, but as a friend I don't think I'd consider it fair to not at least give a hint.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-15341395960465072892009-07-09T14:58:37.941-04:002009-07-09T14:58:37.941-04:00Absolute BS. First of all, a company which doesn&#...Absolute BS. First of all, a company which doesn't keep its employees informed of layoffs is not at all ethical (Infact 99% of the companies today layoff employees at the last minute without any consideration). So, sorry to say this, but I would rather provide a strong hint to my friend that he might be laid off. If you think it's unethical to say directly, you can provide him a strong hint while having a cup of coffee or perhaps forward details of openings in other companies to his personal ID. But do keep him posted! <br /><br />While you need to be ethical, you always need to draw the line somewhere. After all, your company isn't gonna lose anything if your friend knows that he may be laid off!Aswin Kinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16741134467278912014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-82972596385710149092009-07-09T13:10:13.397-04:002009-07-09T13:10:13.397-04:00I agree with Surya; if a friend expects you to vio...I agree with Surya; if a friend expects you to violate your obligation to your employer just because you're friends, then you're not really friends. Is it crappy that the employer is sitting on that knowledge longer than they should? It sure is. Is the friend the only person in this situation? From reading the post, I don't think so. By giving a friend special treatment, you're putting the rest of the soon-to-be-laid-off people at a disadvantage. Obligations to friends don't supersede your duty as a professional, and if they do, you need to pick a profession where they don't conflict.<br /><br />The best solution would be to just give your friend the advice you'd give whether you knew the outcome or not: "You know layoffs are coming soon, and you don't know if you'll have your job after they happen. The only prudent course of action is to prepare for the worst. Don't assume you'll have your job this fall. That way, regardless of what happens, you'll be better equipped to deal."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-45706867242917670932009-07-09T12:20:48.324-04:002009-07-09T12:20:48.324-04:00I don't think giving someone advice to wait to...I don't think giving someone advice to wait to make major financial decisions until the rumors have shaken out into fact is a huge violation. That's sensible advice the writer would presumably give anyone who asked even if he/she didn't have any inside information. It's just smart behavior.Ask a Managerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-67170310650564373622009-07-09T12:19:21.073-04:002009-07-09T12:19:21.073-04:00Jaded - why can't a company work on making thi...Jaded - why can't a company work on making things relatively better for the ex-employees-to-be after telling them?nuqotwnoreply@blogger.com