tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post673034457741152672..comments2023-09-29T06:09:21.089-04:00Comments on Ask a Manager: cleaning the office microwave: hidden duties when job-searchingAsk a Managerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05281942480230532899noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-66610709362480868862010-12-08T14:15:33.414-05:002010-12-08T14:15:33.414-05:00I am so glad I decided to pursue older posts over ...I am so glad I decided to pursue older posts over lunch...GeekChic's cat story was awesome!<br /><br />And I bet smokers were lining up to tend that grave, at least in nice weather - I know I would have been, except during periods were I've quit. During those months I see no point in ever going outside.<br /><br />On point though, everyone has their deal breakers - and if you're just starting out it's good to differentiate what you don't want to do from what you really can't bring yourself to do. <br /><br />And Allison was exactly correct for any position in any field - work to rise through the ranks where management would bristle at someone of your pay grade cleaning the microwave?<br /><br />For me? I'd have cleaned the kitchen but not the bathroom. Only to save my family from starvation would I clean a public restroom. I don't even like having to use one, much less breaking out the toilet wand.Jamienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-54548684776432423732010-11-15T18:36:50.070-05:002010-11-15T18:36:50.070-05:00My title is "Coordinator." At least once...My title is "Coordinator." At least once a week, I'm expected to take a box cutter to the towering assortment of cardboard boxes that my department has emptied over the course of the week (I usually hop to it more often, or the pile would grow to block the entrance to my office; I only let it grow to "towering" when I'm feeling especially resentful of this duty and fall into denial that the boxes really exist). The department assistant (not administrative-we don't have one) has always taken care of this duty, but then she got promoted...to coordinator...yeah, it's me. And it's still my "duty" because there isn't anyone coming up behind me to take over. It helps to think of it as a "duty" that's pretty much unrelated to my "job" and my "career." That minor semantic distinction makes it feel a liitle less demeaning, at least in my head. It also helps that the "duty" involves a box cutter! I take it all out on the garbage and then I can get back to my job.Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-69576899734892468302010-11-15T13:07:22.793-05:002010-11-15T13:07:22.793-05:00Kara, I'm not suggesting the task itself is de...Kara, I'm not suggesting the task itself is demoralizing. I'm saying employers should not be asking their employees to do basically an EXTRA job without compensating them.<br /><br />These are things totally outside of what the job entails. It's exploitative because the employers is getting a two-for-one. Instead of spending the extra $100 a month to have a cleaning service, let's just make whoever we hire next clean the office. Not okay.<br /><br />I'm not disgusted by cleaning nor am I disgusted by the hardworking, commendable folks who do it for a living. But I think it's ridiculous to ask someone with a COMPLETELY unrelated job to roll up the sleeves of their suit to do a job someone else could be doing (and doing WAY better, by the way) to satisfy the petty greed of their employers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-24151199147751995372010-11-15T11:12:05.182-05:002010-11-15T11:12:05.182-05:00I think a really important problem everyone's ...I think a really important problem everyone's missing is that this assignment of menial tasks is very often gendered. What do you do if you're a master's degree level female professional with 15+ years of experience, but you're the one asked to do the dishes because the $8 hour intern is male?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-47740517320529540082010-11-14T22:53:59.940-05:002010-11-14T22:53:59.940-05:00Why is it exploitative? If that's part of wha...Why is it exploitative? If that's part of what you're being hired to do, that's part of the job and you can take it or leave it. As all these comments show, lots of people are fine with accepting that as part of the job. That's what a job is, a business arrangement where the employer hires someone to do work and the employee either says yes or no to that job. And I don't know what world you live in where your job never goes beyond your core duties. If that's been your experience, you've been lucky.<br /><br />And it's a little condescending to people whose jobs revolve around cleaning to be so disgusted at what they do for a living.karanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-19082419301307174742010-11-14T22:34:52.105-05:002010-11-14T22:34:52.105-05:00Thank goodness there are still people who value th...Thank goodness there are still people who value their skills enough to not let themselves be mistreated in the workplace.<br /><br />I am fine with cleaning up after myself and taking care of my own dishes, desk, etc. but when a job includes being the only person to vacuum, dust and scrub the toilet at an office, in the immortal words of Liz Lemon, That's a deal breaker.<br /><br />It's demoralizing. It's unacceptable. It's exploitative. And there are PLENTY of other places to work if you're talented, dedicated and a great team member.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-85514553919757450382010-11-14T09:55:27.373-05:002010-11-14T09:55:27.373-05:00MaryBeth, when I was a lifeguard, I didn't min...MaryBeth, when I was a lifeguard, I didn't mind cleaning the bathrooms so much because they usually weren't very dirty. <br /><br />It was the summer at the city pool when the gang of ten year old boys decided to poop on the floor that got me. The lifeguards had to clean it up and the city wouldn't let us lock the bathrooms and hand out the key so we could identify the poopers. The next summer, I found a different pool to work at.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-20456842678775967062010-11-13T14:47:22.241-05:002010-11-13T14:47:22.241-05:00Anon 1:35PM, this is Anon 10:03. My experience wit...Anon 1:35PM, this is Anon 10:03. My experience with clean up was also with a law firm. They were *cough* frugal in the office, but outsourced help for client events. <br /><br />If your employer doesn't have enough business savvy to understand what happens in the office stays in the office, they don't have enough sense to project a professional image which could impact your future. Take stock of what is happening around you and choose wisely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-45358064502656739332010-11-13T13:35:46.975-05:002010-11-13T13:35:46.975-05:00This is something that has particularly interested...This is something that has particularly interested me since I changed careers from being at senior VP level, went to law school and started out at the rock bottom again. <br /><br />I agree that it's best to have a can-do attitude and hence I have done everything I have been asked to do, however weird or menial, and with a smile on my face. <br /><br />Sometimes, however, I have found myself wondering what's going on when a business hires an entry-level lawyer, with six years of law school and several degrees, and pays them to make and serve coffee, stack a dishwasher, do the photocopying and cut up fruit for punch bowls (all of which I have done in the last year). I get that sometimes the nearest warm body has to do what's needed but there's also, definitely, a hint of 'we suffered this, now it's your turn, and soon you can do it to the next intake'.<br /><br />I also think you have to be careful about it affecting your professional status. For example, if my firm holds a client function I have no real beef with being the guy at the door taking coats, greeting guests, giving out name badges etc because that's really just showing courtesy to your clients, and they appreciate the welcome. But I am always much less keen on being seen by those clients later bussing tables, taking glasses, taking out fresh trays of canapes, etc. If you are also doing billable work for these clients (which I am) I think it can give out a confusing message about your professional status.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-84938144969385434152010-11-13T11:53:34.216-05:002010-11-13T11:53:34.216-05:00Mike,
We are getting off topic, but the reality is...Mike,<br />We are getting off topic, but the reality is our companies sales are down 50%. We haven't made money in two years. Our bank is nervous and our line of credit is renewed on a month to month basis. We have to provide continuous lists of what we have done to reduce costs. If they pull our line of credit we are out of business. It would be very hard to find a new bank. We've also haven't had any employees leave on their own and everyone has received either a pay reduction or a cut in hours. If they could find a new job I'm sure they would be gone.<br />Now lets stay on topic. Sorry AAMSavvyworkinggalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08159197609419858161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-22218052326514827362010-11-13T11:40:02.649-05:002010-11-13T11:40:02.649-05:00@Savvy
I'm sorry, you've been sold a brid...@Savvy<br /><br />I'm sorry, you've been sold a bridge in Manhattan if you believe that companies in general are hurting so much as to need to get rid of janitorial staff. My family runs a janitorial business (great motivation to get into a good engineering school) so I have a good idea what this sort of thing runs. <br /><br />Companies large and small are hoarding record amounts of cash because they can scare their employees into working more unpaid overtime for fear of being "downsized". If you want to really get down to it, household incomes have been stagnant for decades despite constant increases in per capita productivity. <br /><br />You mention "these economic times" and when I think of that phrase, I think of record contracts my company brings in and how my coworkers that aren't allowed to have weekends off due to the work load. I think back to the lack of a review system and a lack of raises and bonuses despite the business being brought in. I think back to how we've been promised benefits that others would consider normal only to never hear about it again. <br /><br />I think back to how all the H1-B visa holders leave the instant they get their permanent residency. They have it the worst, because if I'm fired for not working overtime, I'm not kicked out of the country. <br /><br />So when I hear posters talk about "having a can-do attitude" and being "happy to pick up the slack", I can't help but think you're all being sold a bill of goods.Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-59080370503848497062010-11-13T11:20:47.451-05:002010-11-13T11:20:47.451-05:00When I was starting out I would have been disappoi...When I was starting out I would have been disappointed if one of my duties were to clean up after my new co-workers (because I so wanted to make it), but janitorial duties would never have prevented me from taking a job.<br /><br /> In the companies I’ve worked at, there has always been one employee who made sure the office was clean and operated smoothly. This was the same employee who helped you fix the copy machine when it was jammed. In both companies, this person wasn’t necessarily assigned cleaning duties, but took them on as part of their job. They wouldn’t hesitate to clean the microwave if it need be, but there would be a “clean up after yourself” sign posted the next day.<br /><br />At my current company, all cleaning services were cancelled as part of a cost cutting initiative last year. Initially, our company owners told everyone they were responsible for keeping their own area clean and assigned floors and restroom clean up to the guys that worked in inside sales. Our President did not feel the ladies in my department should have to clean toilets. The inside sales team lost two employees to a downsizing in September and you guessed it they no longer have time to clean. This has caused a huge raucous in my department (accounting). While I was on vacation, a gal from inside sales hung a cleaning schedule up in the ladies bathroom. One of my employees tore it down saying if she has to clean toilets she is quitting. A third employee filled me in on the happenings. This was two weeks ago.<br /><br />Since the incident I cleaned the restroom last week and the inside sales guys cleaned it this week. The plan is to send an email out each week asking for a volunteer. From my experience the cleaning itself wasn’t so bad – the restroom was more dusty than anything, but I wasn’t comfortable cleaning in work clothes despite it being casual Friday.<br /><br />Yesterday, I witnessed the inside sales gal carrying out the lunch room trash and it got me thinking. In these economic times everyone needs to look around and do whatever needs to be done. I can understand not wanting to clean toilets, but if the restroom needs paper towels walk over to the storage room and get a pack. It’s not that hard. My employee who tore down the schedule is the first one in my office asking about potential promotions, but when a special work assignment comes around she is either too busy or too picky to get the assignment done. When a promotion does come around the employee who volunteered to fill the towel roll is going to be looked on more favorable than the one who doesn’t empty her own trash. Just my two cents.Savvyworkinggalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08159197609419858161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-80242727819288517422010-11-13T08:15:32.973-05:002010-11-13T08:15:32.973-05:00OP is lucky it was mentioned at this stage in the...OP is lucky it was mentioned at this stage in the process. Most of the time a person doesn't find out about "other duties" until everyone starts complaining that XYZ hasn't been done and is looking at the new person and wonerdering why she isn't doing XYZ. Why? Because he/she hasn't been told it's his/her job.Dawnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-18759813057784029372010-11-13T04:42:57.043-05:002010-11-13T04:42:57.043-05:00I think the problem is really simple. One should h...I think the problem is really simple. One should have an open mind when applying for a job because there is always something else you're going to do that will annoy you and has no relevance to your position. If you are not sure what the "other duties as assigned" means than PLEASE ask. The interview is about learning about you as much as learning about the job and the company.You have to understand that the job description will not contain every little detail as that would be a waste of time.Jobs change and are always tailored to the companies needs.<br /><br />If you are not willing to at least do your fair share maybe you can stay home. In this economy, count your blessings that you actually have a chance to go to an interview. <br /><br />HR RecruiterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-52268527888222055522010-11-13T02:28:13.688-05:002010-11-13T02:28:13.688-05:00I also don't get the self-righteous indignatio...I also don't get the self-righteous indignation at the OP. The OP was shocked when the interviewer mentioned that these duties were part of the job. In my opinion, the problem doesn't have anything to do with the OP's attitude, it has to do with how the job was represented in the original job advertisement. Plenty of employers list miscellaneous duties such as tidying up the break room and kitchen area, why not simply state those things up front in your job ad if you know right away that that's what you want someone in that position to do?Leslienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-89325799341438063352010-11-12T21:38:51.361-05:002010-11-12T21:38:51.361-05:00I work at an outdoor pool in the summertime, and h...I work at an outdoor pool in the summertime, and have worked there for 5 years now. When I started, the "first year guards" were always "cut to clean", meaning that at the end of the day when there are less patrons, the first year guards had to clean everything in the complex. It was grossly unfair, but no one complained, because thats the way it was. <br />In the next years, it changed to everyone except the managers could be cut to clean. If there were more managers lifeguarding than normal lifeguards, then there were less people who had to clean, leaving the guards to have to clean more, which always led to vast amounts of complaining, especially if there was an especially repulsive mess in the bathrooms. <br />Last summer, when I was promoted to head manager, I decided to change things up so that everyone who had worked that day had to take part in the cleaning - managers included. I worked my way up to the top, and just because I did doesn't mean that I am any less capable of cleaning than my lifeguards. I enjoyed doing the same work as they did, but I can't say the same for the assistant managers that I passed up on the way to the top. They refused to clean because they didn't think it was fair. Their refusal to change will also result in their refusal to be reemployed next summer.<br /><br />Cleaning: Sweep and mop the bathrooms, showers, and locker rooms. Clean and disinfect the toilets and sinks. Replace any toilet paper or paper towel as needed. Clean and disinfect the Guard Hut (aka break area), the microwave, the refrigerator, and front entrance. Pick up trash and empty the trash cans as needed. If it's a Monday or Friday, the trash cans also need to be washed and disinfected. On Tuesdays, we also have to mow the lawn. This is all done by the employees - there is not money for a janitor.MaryBethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14636856467112815198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-81830100462051190052010-11-12T19:01:03.149-05:002010-11-12T19:01:03.149-05:00To all the people expressing their righteous indig...To all the people expressing their righteous indignation at the OP, could you please descend from Mount Pious? Why are you offended that the OP doesn't want to do a certain task - it's her perogative! Obviously, she will not have as many employment options because of this restriction, but again, that is her choice. You made yours, she's making hers, and I'm not impressed by the stories of the crap you've had to clean on the way up the ladder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-42662707897367159182010-11-12T18:48:04.478-05:002010-11-12T18:48:04.478-05:00Sometimes everyone needs to pitch in a little to m...Sometimes everyone needs to pitch in a little to make things run smoothly. <br /><br />I would not ask anything of a staff member I would not be willing to do myself. That includes those weird little miscellaneous duties like tidying up the general pupose area or making sure there was toilet paper in the restroom. <br /><br />In this ecomony, and the job market the way it is, if my company has to let the cleaning service go so I can keep MY job, I'm more than willing to pitch in!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-59708385698429841182010-11-12T17:59:34.990-05:002010-11-12T17:59:34.990-05:00Ok, why doesn't it just work like this?
1. Yo...Ok, why doesn't it just work like this?<br /><br />1. You are responsible for the general upkeep of your own workspace.<br /><br />2. You are responsible for your own personal needs. It's no one else's job to make your coffee, fetch your lunch, or drop off your dry-cleaning. (Within the scope of a typical office position- although there are variations of a “personal assistant” type job that would specifically include these things) Support staff is there to support their supervisor in the duties that relate to his or her role in the company, which would include things like filing, answering phones, doing the mail, etc. NOT attending to their personal needs, like feeding them, keeping them caffenated, etc.<br /><br />3. Any general upkeep in a communal area and not covered by the custodial staff ought to be shared by the staff. Since, in general, a break room or kitchenette is designed to serve workers’ personal needs, it seems to me that its upkeep ought to be shared by those that use it. (In my office this is no big deal- everyone from the receptionist, to the accountant, to me, to our head honcho- has cleaned out the microwave at some point. It's actually sort of a running joke in the office how the prior boss never pitched in with that!)<br /><br />4. If you make an unusual mess in a communal space (i.e., put something leaky in the fridge, or nuke spaghetti and it spatters all over the microwave, or spill coffee on the floor, etc.) you are responsible for it. Even in a system where you do have a designated person responsible for the cleaning, this is just common courtesy.<br /><br />Anyway, those are sort of the unwritten rules in my office, and they seem to work pretty well :)Ellienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-28586080961787117602010-11-12T16:41:02.763-05:002010-11-12T16:41:02.763-05:00I agree that some of the comments are a little dem...I agree that some of the comments are a little demeaning. "15x", really? <br /><br />There's a happy medium here. Asking your staff to clean the toilet is too much, yes. But that's not the case in the OP. It sounded, to me, like the OP was asked to do some minor dishes which is something our receptionist does as part of her job, as well as brewing coffee, etc. There is a big, big, big difference here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-47115084629542193412010-11-12T16:34:15.691-05:002010-11-12T16:34:15.691-05:00@anon(2:53pm): You sound like a grade A jerk to me...@anon(2:53pm): You sound like a grade A jerk to me. You go and say you make 15x their salary then try to put yourself on the same level by saying you are using the facilities too.<br /><br />Make up your mind, either you are part of the team or you see yourself above the team due to your salary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-42965643145178422962010-11-12T16:26:26.213-05:002010-11-12T16:26:26.213-05:00I think Karen (4.03pm) said it really well. My pro...I think Karen (4.03pm) said it really well. My problem is not about doing the menial stuff, more about the distribution of the task. I was hired as a Sr. executive assistant (not an entry level), not a janitor. If everyone wanted to pitch in, sure, I'd be happy to do my part. But I didn't want to be the maid for everybody at work.<br /><br />At home, I have a cleaning lady whose job is only cleaning. I wouldn't expect her to mowe my lawn or do my laundry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-38785039793718917302010-11-12T16:03:41.096-05:002010-11-12T16:03:41.096-05:00I'm a little appalled, though not surprised, a...I'm a little appalled, though not surprised, at the answers that insinuate a low work ethic on the part of the OP. <br /><br />Janitorial tasks are for janitors. If the company is too cheap or lacks the forethought to hire a janitor, then everyone should share the duty on a rotating basis. Or here's an idea, clean up after yourselves an don't trash the kitchen/office/communal space.<br /><br />I get that job descriptions can't possibly cover all of the small tasks that an entry level job requires, and that's OK. Entry level employees should expect some additional unpleasant, menial tasks. But janitorial work...really? What's next? Are you going to ask the person on the bottom of the totem pole to clean toilets? Act as an exterminator? Paint the building?<br /><br />I'm sensing some sour grapes from people that have perhaps been treated poorly as young professionals, and now feel that it's their right to do the same to the next generation.Karennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-15163486454442229932010-11-12T15:29:22.502-05:002010-11-12T15:29:22.502-05:00Seriously, this question rubs me the wrong way. I ...Seriously, this question rubs me the wrong way. I work for a start-up and everyone here...all 40 of us have a do- whatever-it takes attitude. If you dont, you dont last. She needs to change her attitude and stop being petty if she wants to get employed and be successful anywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5558939360732260529.post-38494081836790514302010-11-12T15:14:19.639-05:002010-11-12T15:14:19.639-05:00When I was in college I managed a record store to ...When I was in college I managed a record store to pay my way. One morning a customer (who was very inebriated) relieved himself on the store's our counter, apparently mistaking it for a urinal.<br /><br />After the police escorted him out, I looked at the woman who worked for me and said, "Tell your teammates that I will never ask you guys to do anything I wouldn't do myself."<br /><br />And I gloved up and cleaned up the whole disgusting mess.<br /><br />On a much more somber note, a friend worked at a convenience store that was robbed during the wee hours of the morning. The lone employee was shot during the robbery and was killed.<br /><br />B, not knowing of any of this, reported to work and was told by the store owner that he needed to clean up the crime scene, blood and all. He refused and quit on the spot. And I don't blame him.<br /><br />B and I would have been thrilled to mind the cat grave!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com